Eric Flint Owes Brad Torgesen And The Rest Of The Puppies A Huge Apology


The other day, I posted this on Facebook.

One of the people I tagged was author Eric Flint because he was the subject of the Wisse piece that I was commenting about. Later Eric comes charging into the thread essentially accusing me and all the commenters on the thread of being well, I’ll let Eric say it; “Most of you are practically foaming at the mouth, in what has become standard right-wing Rage At Everything Mode.”

After a back and forth about Marxism he posts this comment;”Here’s one from Brad Torgersen. “douchebag liberals.” How, sweet. For the record, he’s referring to my mother, my sister, my daughter and a fair number of my friends. Go fuck yourself, asshole.

Now I’m going to assume that the asshole he’s referring to is me, but any case he owes Brad a HUGE apology for his comments and the rest of the sad puppies and maybe Vox Day for his continued willful ignorance.  Eric owes Brad because the same time he was insulting Brad, Brad was finishing the formatting of, and posting this on Eric’s website.

Well, Eric, “ignorance is something that can be fixed.”  I’m going to give you that opportunity.  Stay with me, this is going to be heavy.  But since all too many of the people involved are friends of yours, coworkers and your publisher, maybe you should have some interest in what’s really happening. So far everything that Eric has posted about the Hugos seems to be based on his opinions and long term relationships, some with people on the other side and short on actual factual knowledge.  But, as he said, ignorance can be fixed.  So I’m going to post facts.

I started to collect stuff here.

Here are some highlights:

      Here’s a blog post from Kate Paulk on THE science panel from last year’s Lunacon.  There was no Lunacon this year so I don’t know what it would have been like.  I imagine that I would have been disappointed, yet again.

What I’ve started to realize is that this isn’t just some drift.  It’s part and parcel of the destruction of the culture by the left that’s been going on for a long time now. We’ve seen this across just about everything.  The constant attacks by seemingly reasonable people on such stupid stuff all the time.  The idea that these people hate and want to destroy the culture seems ludicrous.  Until you see what they say and write.

I don’t know why they started to hate and frankly, I don’t care why.  But the hate has spread across science fiction fandom and it’s gotten worse.  I think things started to come to a burn in 2013 after the haters managed to get two senior well known contributors to the Science Fiction Writers Association Bulletin and the editor canned over a description of a lady editor they had known as a “knockout.”  Now I know from long term personal experience that “knockouts” are few and far between in the fan community and I can understand why the harpies and blobs that are in the fan community might get upset, but was it really worth the storm that arose.

No, not unless they were collecting scalps.     Considering how many coincidently almost identical posts I found on blogs about this and how little blowback from anybody else they got what they wanted.  Apparently this sort of thing had been going on for some time and I hadn’t even noticed.  Probably because I only went to Lunacon regularly and I expected the people who worked for the traditional publishers to be more or less of one political persuasion.  But I was never too concerned about that impact.  After all my old favorites were still in print and Baen seemed to be doing fine, so I figured that the other publishers were publishing a diversity of stuff and I wasn’t picking up on it. That was a mistake.

You know that culture wars are bad when the crap is rubbed in your nose.  And the stink in this one was huge. I hadn’t realized just how bad it was. Two events last year brought it to a focus.  One was the forcing of the removal of “Uncle Tim” Bolgeo as fan guest of honor from Archon because of something that may have been in his newsletter “Revenge Of The Hump Day.”  The other was the revelation of noted author Marion Zimmer Bradley’s pedophilia and that of her husband by Bradley’s daughter and the continued support of Bradley after the revelations were made public.

Now I have never met Tim Bolgeo, which is my loss and something I hope to rectify, but I haven’t found ONE person who DOES know him who can say ANYTHING bad about the man.  Furthermore I have been reading his newsletter since the events last year and I have yet to see any pattern racism, sexism or anything else.  Most of what I sin the newsletter is published in other places and is topical and irreverent.  The general consensus by most of the writers I’ve seen is that Tim is a Totally wonderful person who has helped dozens of new authors get a voice.  That may have been the problem.  Here’s the sort of story you mostly see about Tim Bolgeo.

But no amount of good that somebody does can over come the imaginary “bad” that the SJW’s have in their heads. Now I’ve been reading  the “Revenge Of The Hump Day” for over a year and I haven’t found it to be a racist tract.  But then I don’t have micro or for that matter macro aggression over claims of racism.  And I consider the source of the racism claim.–hilarity-ensues

The fact is that MJCS found racism because he HAD to, in his own words to keep the obviously bad thought from the South from the holy precincts of Archon.  What’s worse is that the con committee caved to the fat middle aged man in a Space Ghost costume.   The scope and scale of the witch hunt he started was just amazing, as was the number of people, who not even knowing who Uncle Timmy was, came out and joined the mob.

The flip side is that if the new SFF won’t tolerate a middle aged more or less conservative nuclear engineer what will they tolerate?  Well that was demonstrated by the attention or maybe no attention paid to the revelations of the children of Marion Zimmer Bradley.  These revelations and the accusations could not have been more damning.  Bradley and her husband apparently molested not only her children, but the children of others.  The fact that most of these things happened in radical Berkley in the late Progressive 1960’s made it OK for the SFWA crowd. Certainly they didn’t condemn it and continued to praise MZB as an icon for LGBT.

Which, of course seems to be the important thing for all too much of the SFWA and trufan cliques.  They seem to be more interested in pursuing their political ends than trying to support science fiction.  The medium has become to be about them.  It’s not enough that the story is bold, imaginative, mind blowing and well written, it has to have the correct political viewpoint or be written by the correct victim class. Here’s Vox Day’s blog on his adventures in and against this crowd.

Now I don’t like Vox Day very much.  I agree with a lot of the things he says, but his attitude leaves me cold.  I think that he goes out of his way to be abrasive and then can’t seem to understand that that might rub people the wrong way.  That being said, I think that throwing just Vox out of the SFWA and not his antagonists was way beyond the call.  Especially since, as Vox documents, they were breaking the rules far more than his little mistake on twitter did.

Now the SFWA types witch hunting can’t affect Vox at all.  He doesn’t publish through the Traditional NY presses that are part of the mob.  So he won’t suffer from having spit in the other’s eye.  But others have suffered. Like wolves, the mob doesn’t hesitate attempt to destroy what they don’t.  What they don’t realize is that what they are destroying is themselves.

The Progressive attacks on the America mythos has been part of their general attack on the things they hate.   Hate seems to be a driving force with these people. It’s as if they have a need for their witch hunts.  It’s a compulsion for them, a need for absolute control of everything and everybody in their environment.  What happens when somebody even goes a little off their reservation is insane.  This is the age where people lose their jobs over making ribald comments about “dongles” in a private conversation that some SJW overheard.  This is the time where a top scientist is hounded to tears and his organization shamed because of his lucky shirt.

Of course while they are destroying themselves, they are also taking a hit at the culture.  Now each culture has it’s defining myths and America is no different.  We like to believe certain things, right or wrong.  Like George Washington and the cherry tree.  The idea that our politicians were honest and government competent, ha, ha.

Myths are important though. They help us to define who we are. We know that they aren’t real, but they help us imagine that we can be better than we are.  That Buck Rodgers stuff is part of the American myth.  Beyond being a great achievement “One small step for a man” is part of what makes us what we are.  The Giant leap didn’t start with Apollo.  It started with Robert Goddard and this putting a trip to the moon on the black board. It also stared with Hugo Gernsback and his pulp magazine filled imaginative and bold tales of mind blowing technologies. What it was not was deep meaningful pointless tales by deep authors about how depressing life was.

Considering that modern science fiction came of age in the turbulent 1930’s, when everything seemed to be coming apart, that was a good thing.  Most people had enough depression in their lives already.  They didn’t need dismal.  Dismal was their life.  What they, except for an elite set at the Algonquin table wanted, was escapism.  They wanted to believe that the future was better than now and the editors of the pulp magazines where science fiction lived gave it to them.

Also the editors knew their stuff.  Hugo Gernsback had a background in early radio.  John W. Campbell had a physics degree and his father worked at Bell Labs. People don’t realize that up until recently science fiction was a small business on the fringes of  society.  You won’t find  any science fiction in the New York Review Of Books in the 1930’s.  Nor any science fiction books on the Times bestseller list.

The problems started in the late 1980’s.  Some people say that Star Wars ruined by making science fiction popular .  Certainly that may have brought science fiction a new audience, but the fact is that the stuff in the 1980’s was good.  All of the old school authors were getting stuff published, in hardcover.  And in paperback there was a vibrant collection of midlist authors and the old stuff from the golden age was brought into print.  Editors like Donald A Wolheim, Judy Lynne Del Rey and Jim Baen kept the stuff flowing and built the careers of authors such as CJ Cherryh John Varley  and Larry Niven.  It was a great time to be a fan.

Suddenly it was over.  The money got to be big and the big companies started to notice.  Then Judy Lynne Del-Rey and Donald A Wolheim passed away, taking the independence they had with them.  The editors that replaced them just didn’t have the touch.  You could see it on the shelves.  The fun stuff seemed to go away. Where, in the 1980’s there seemed to be a new author a week, there didn’t seem to be anything new.  Much of was new was media tie ins for one property or another. It all was getting rather bland.  It’s almost as if the new crop of editorial staff didn’t have a clue.

They didn’t.  The new type editor was more likely to have  degree in literature than engineering.  And be well suited to the corporate and literary world in which they work.  But having a clue about how technology works in a society, they just did not have the skills for that.  At least they didn’t have a clue about science fiction. Nor did they understand the audience.  They thought that as long as there was a space ship in the story we rubes wouldn’t know any better.  The important thing was to have  the right kind of narrative in the story, just like their liberal activist college professors told them. The problem was that we in their audience were the kind of people who could design a spacecraft that worked. Getting the rivets wrong and we will probably stop buying. There’s a reason Hard SF has disappeared from the shelves.

They’ve been able to get away with ignorance because they decided what got published and reviewed.  They could use the push sales model to determine what got put on the shelves of the big two bookstores and

For a long time now the gatekeepers had everything their own way.  From editorial positions and participation on con executive panels they could control what was awarded and pushed in to publication.  They could rely on a few best sellers to pay the bills and print the stuff they liked without worrying too much if they made money.  The old style midlist was left to fester.  Midlist authors received rates so low that only part timers could afford to write anymore unless they were at the top of the heap.

This was great for the people at the top of the heap.  They didn’t have to work reading all those manuscripts.  They had their little clique of trufen that plied them with accolades at cons that their employers the companies that have taken over science fiction publishing  paid them to go to.  Life  was good.

The thing the SF elites wanted though, was a seat at that table at the Algonquin.  They wanted  to make SFF “relevant”  They wanted to publish the kinds of books that get accolades in The New York Review Of Books.  They wanted to be part of the the big parties.  They didn’t want to be sneered by their coworkers down the hall. They didn’t have any investment in the culture of science fiction anyway.

So the editors of the traditional publishers followed the path of the NYC glitterati.  They read the NY Times every day and even get their titles reviewed in the book section.  They pursued the culture and thoughts  of the NY elite without thinking about it too much.  They mouth all the right things and went to the right marches, getting street cred by attacking president Bush and so forth.  It was all so much fun.  Just join the mobs and yell the right slogans.

They were also highly successful in redirecting the focus of the books they published.  At least they were successful in getting them published.  They could put together  books all about the latest social justice push or muck and the story didn’t matter so much. After all they could push whatever they wanted and the bookstore buyers, who by and large weren’t book people, would just look at the covers and the blurbs and say put five in each store.  It all became just like selling groceries.

The problem was that they push all they wanted, but it wouldn’t necessarily sell.  Frankly between the social progress, stuff the ignorance of the editorial staff, they writers they were choosing and the corporate environment the whole book selection became commoditized. As a comment in a SJW blog that I haven’t been able find, “Go down the SF section in a bookstore and you see the same authors and the same 20 stories.”  Science fiction has become the bland because instead of big vision we have low politics.

Because the people in the “in” crowd of SF  could block vote they could control who got the award.  There was a reason the editors at Tor swapped the “Best Editors” Hugo year after year in the 2000’s and it had to do with the fact that Tor can pony up for about 100 or so memberships for Worldcon for their employees and authors who worked the con and guess who they voted for.  You can see the pattern voting if you look.  In fact the only time Tor did not win best novel was the year Harry Potter got nominated.

Accountant and urban fantasy writer, Larry Corriea, being an accountant  did an analysis of the Hugo Awards and noticed that the trend was heading toward titles based on the authors being in the victim class or adhering to the SJW line as well as a disconnect between the titles that were actually selling and those that were winning the Hugos. He also noticed that you could possibly game the system with remarkably few number of nominating votes and that Author John Scalzi  were running campaigns and that Tor books tended to appear on the shortlist far more often than you might expect.

The thing is like all the other arts this new culture is reaching down, not up.  It’s reaching into the lowest perversions and impulses and saying that this is what we should be like.  The people behind this are looking for shock value and destruction.  That’s a real problem for science fiction. science fiction is about vision and looking forward.  Instead it’s joined with academic leftism and started to devolve into perverted porn. With each iteration there’s less vision and more drek.

The problem is that porn has a limited attraction. And people don’t want to be preached to.  And left wing Marxism doesn’t sell except to true believers.  Hell, it doesn’t sell even when there’s nothing else.   Even in Soviet Russia the lefty line didn’t sell unless people were forced to read it.  The fact is that stuff doesn’t reach people.  There’s no connection with real people doing real stuff. It’s all a perfect hate fest on the current Kulaks, whoever they may be  or proud boasts of accomplishments that are pathetic.

Until fairly recently, the TruFen has been able to us their control of the gates to getting your books published to create a climate of fear and intimidation.  With each passing year the threats get more dramatic, the contracts worse, the abuse in the halls at cons more nasty.  The fear is especially palpable if you are, psst, a Conservative, or for that matter, of any political persuasion other than Feminist Maoist.

The problem is that fear based societies stifle creativity and create conformity.  Everybody wears the right ribbon and puts the blue eagle in the window.  People are too afraid not to.  But they don’t invest anything other than the least amount of effort either.  Pretty soon you stop participating if it isn’t  mandatory.

The progress of this fear driven culture in SF and publishing is measured in what we are not seeing.  We’re not seeing the bright young talent .  We’re not seeing the engineers and scientists who dream big and write about it.  All that’s left is bland stuff and message fiction that nobody wants to read.

The problem is that the people in charge of the gates in science fiction don’t realize what they are doing . Or if they do they want the hate.  There seems to be a LOT of that. The rage over sad puppies is clear evidence of that. As far as they are concerned anybody not in complete agreement with the SJW theme of the moment needs not only to be silenced, but destroyed.  What they don’t seem to understand is that they are destroying themselves.

I can understand why they are upset.  They are losing their grip on SF. Especially since the readership has left them behind and new writers are going to Amazon and ebooks rather than fighting though a gate that they know that they will not pass. Stuff the SJW’s don’t like is getting published and it’s outselling them. And more and more the writers and fans are no longer afraid of them.

They are so caught up in their social activism that they don’t seem to realize something very important.  They are fighting battle already won decades ago.  In science fiction, the LGBT and race ship done sailed a long time ago.  All that stuff was done to death in the 1970’s and the readership no longer cares.  The SJW’s are beating a dead horse. That won’t stop them trying to change SF into some caricature of what its supposed to be, instead creating a social justice tract with rocketships stamped on. Is this what SF is supposed to be about.  How can you love something if you feel compelled to change it to suit your prejudices.

Look, I don’t read science fiction to get yet more LGBT or whatever indoctrination treatment that’s the current narrative of this day.  I can get that just by turning on a television set.  I read science fiction to get away from the raging conformity that pervades a culture that is more and more drifting into broken rot.

Now that may be fine for people who don’t seem to want progress anyway. That’s not what Hugo Gernsback wanted.  That’s not what John W. Campbell wanted.  That’s certainly  not what Jim Baen wanted.  The Hugos should be awarded to works of great vision, not works of political conformity.  Science fiction is about the far out, the bold visions, the mad ideas, not inspection of the antics of the bedroom or concern over the color of beige that the author’s skin is.

There was a time when the science fiction community was about being better than the mundane.  The SF community had to be better because it was so small.  We had to put limits on our fights because if we didn’t there wouldn’t be enough community left after words. Some  of community have decided that if they cannot impose their views on get the rest of us and have all the pretty rocketships to themselves they are perfectly willing to burn down SF.

Diversity, real diversity, is about dealing with other cultures and  ideas.  It’s not about trolling somebody because they have white skin or creating imaginary patrimonies that don’t exist.  This intolerance of anybody’s ideas should be anathema to the community.  I shouldn’t be reading about how everybody who doesn’t agree with the SJW line is subjected to the  worst sort of treatment from a mob. I shouldn’t be reading about how the likes of’ “Requires  Hate” move to ruin authors and fan’s lives over trivial stuff.  Grow up, people. The world doesn’t change  to fit your prejudices and destroying somebody because they said something you didn’t like isn’t going to make you friends.

When you lose what made you great you lose a big piece of yourself.  Pushing away what made you great for petty fights and stupid licentiousness is just plain stupid.  Letting your community get run over by mobs who have no interest in your community is just ruinous.  Yet that is what the powers that be in SF are doing.  They seem to have forgotten, or never had the vision of what SF is supposed to be.  They’ve dropped down into a sort of conformity with the PC status quo rather than telling the SJW’s to take a hike.  Even worse, they take the part of the SJW, out of fear or because they agree with some, or all of what the SJW’s represent.  In any case by dragging SF through the mud, they’ve forgotten that we reached for the stars.

Now Eric, you like to think of yourself as an idealist.  And you have been willing to sacrifice yourself for the cause. Never mind that the cause was the worst one possible.  How do I know it was the worst one possible.  Meet Art.  While you were in Birmingham getting beat up as a tool for tyranny, he was in Gdansk, getting beat up for liberty.  You risked an overnight jail stay, he risked getting sent to the cold place, or shot in the back  of the head.


As far as I’m concerned there’s almost nothing worse than trying to take the moral high ground while wrapping themselves in the bloody red flag. Somehow making the Socialist omelet means breaking a lot of eggs and innocent heads. To say nothing of  the victims like this.

The Holodomor.

The Great Leap Forward.

Perhaps even worse than the mass death, democide and “reeducation” camps is total societal malaise that permeates socialist societies. Sit next to people who’ve lived in in Socialism like Art here has and maybe your opinion of it will change.  When it takes days to even get the most necessary staples stuff and EVERYTHING is short.

The thing is, here in the US, as much as the Frankfurt School tried, Socialism can’t take hold because it’s alien for most of us.  We Americans are the people that left that sort of crap behind us.  I think that many, if not most would prefer not to be part of some monstrous machine.

Enough about leftys. The left is dying a slow death, punctuated by the screams from the institutions they control and the people worried about their lost influence.  Which brings us to the topic at hand. Where there has been much screaming and gnashing of teeth.

The fact is that SF is dying a slow death.  At least literary SF is.  It’s been dying for a long time. There are a lot of reasons why, tied to the general decline in reading,  the aging of the readership, the reduction in the number of outlets and the corporatization of both the publishing industries and the bookselling industry. But one big reason is that the people in charge of publishing SFF have caught themselves in an echo chamber. Add to that the corporatation of the publishing industry and it’s no surprise that so much of the status quo stuff is as Sarah Hoyt calls it, “grey goo.”

The SFF powers that be can’t seem to understand that the simple fact is that virtually nobody is buying what they are selling.  They live in their NYC echo chamber and the real world doesn’t seem to matter to them.  I’ve seen them in the bubble close up, the little clique of closed minds and never let an independent thought enter the darkness.

That may be fine for academic literature.  But SFF is supposed to expand the mind and open the horizons.  Lately though print SF has been failing to do that.  Look at the SF section in a typical chain bookstore.  As a CHORF described it ironically, “It’s the same five authors with the same twenty stories.”   I’m glad that I’m not the only one that’s noticed that.

That’s what the Sad Puppies are trying to address.  The whole message that the Puppies are sending is that even the top award for SF has grown stale.  Whether it’s because of the declining membership of Worldcon or because a small clique of people from as Walt Boyd put it, from TOR and NESFA have been running the Hugos doesn’t matter.  The fact that very bad political tracts are being rammed down our throats does.

What the CHORFS don’t seem to understand is that the Puppies are a result of the problem and not the cause.  Instead of receiving the message, they are insisting on destroying the messenger.  Rather than accepting the fact that the status quo needs to change they have demonstrated that they are willing to do anything including burning the Hugos down to avoid looking at themselves as they truly are.

The best thing the CHORFs could have done is lived by the principles they say that they said the Hugos represented.  They cold have welcomed the puppies as new blood.  At the very least they could have remained silent and accepted the fact that things are going to change.  Instead they created a huge media smear campaign against, among other people, Brad.  Frankly, accusing BRAD of being anything other than the nicest guy you will ever meet is just weird and I don’t think I’ve ever met Brad personally.  But when you play by Alinsky rules, facts aren’t relevant, the narrative is.

Along with that they are trying to “fix” the Hugos to make sure that only the “proper Worldcon membership,” the TRUFAN is allowed to pick who SF awards the Hugos to.  They are trying as hard as they can to make the Hugos the comfortable racket they like so much.  I don’t think that they realize just how much the nastiness they’ve been spreading around is losing them friends

Of course it doesn’t help that the CHORFs have been diligently creating their own monster.  I suspect that they thought that Vox would just fall apart and blow away like dust when they went all Alinsky on him at SFWA.  The problem is that Alinsky tactics only work when the other side accepts your definition of them.  And Vox didn’t believe what the CHORFs were saying about who he was and frankly was able to turn their constant distortions and half truths against them.  Making false assertions doesn’t work as well on the internet where almost nothing is permanently forgotten and everything can documented.  It’s hard to make false assertions when the truth is a Google search away.

What the CHORFs don’t seem to be able to understand is that once you put up something in a blog, you might as well be broadcasting your actions to the other side.  And while most of us don’t care what’s on the CHORFs’ blogs on or another of us will probably see it and pass it around.  And Vox is not above pointing out the other side’s strategies and saying to his readership, tit for tat.

Up until the last few years I don’t think that many of us fans really cared about the Hugos very much.  The one time I’ve been able to attend a Worldcon I don’t think I even voted.  I’m absolutely sure that I didn’t participate in the nomination process the next year.  One thing the response the CHORFs have made many of realize for the first time is just how rotten the Hugo Awards have gotten.  I think that up until the CHORFs  declared total war on the puppies none of us on the other side really understood how far those people were willing to go for little plastic rocketships.

This wasn’t a war any of the puppies wanted.  Frankly the pull out the stops, over top media campaign, along with bringing prominent SJWs like Arthur Chu and Brianna Wu was a surprise.  It was a true first strike of hate that was nuclear in it’s scope.  Of course that was it’s problem. That, and the fact there wasn’t a shadow of truth to the whole thing.  Remember that this was Brad we are talking about.

Ultimately this whole thing is about delivering  to the reader a good story.  That’s something that all authors should want to achieve.  It shouldn’t matter what the melanin content of the author’s skin or who they sleep with as the story entertains the reader.

The problem is that living in the NYC bubble and the push model of publishing has allowed the CHORFs to isolate themselves from the readership by and large. Like the  rest of NY  establishment they  hold the “unwashed masses” in contempt.  The opinion of the typical reader doesn’t matter as much to them as much as the good opinions of their friends on the editorial staff of the NY Times.  And most of them  have academic backgrounds from the Ivy Covered Snob Factories. A bunch  of places where contempt of the common man  is as much a part of the curriculum as the latest lefty fad, all in the pursuit of “social justice” and guilt alleviation of course.

Considering what’s happened over the last year or so, I wouldn’t want “social justice” attached anywhere near my name.  Especially in connection with fandom.  Let’s just say  that they haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory or advanced their  cause.  In fact they tend to come as bullies beating up on those they think  can’t or won’t fight back.

I think that gamergate was an eye opener for some of us. For one thing it demonstrated just how far the SJWs are willing to go in  pursuit  of their bullying, how corrupt the media was and how warped a SJW was. As time went on it’s become pretty obvious that the typical SJW is doing it for the power trip, the bullying and the money, of course. The other surprise is that victims can beat  back SJW douchery and win.  Of course it helps to have the power of the purse, which is why going after the GAMERS was a HUGE SJW mistake.  As soon  as the email and letter campaigns to game journal advertisers started the war was over.

The other problem with SJWs is that if they run out of enemies, they start trying to  destroy their friends.   I imagine that “requires hate” is an extreme case, but she was  by no means the only harpy out there. It’s interesting to see the CHORF response when this appeared on  the Puppies’ list.

Of course even the greatest achievement doesn’t matter when a SJW harpy has a victim  she can bully in her sights.

Of course anything goes with the SJW set to ensure that any opposition is silenced.  After all, that’s the Alinsky Way.

This has gotten too long, Eric and I’m leave it with this.  WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!! Before I knew what your relationship with Brad was, your posts were just more of the kind of crap we have been seeing all over.  Not only excusing the nuclear strike of hate, but seemingly justifying it.  Most of us thought you just weren’t aware of the whole story.  That was before we knew how well you knew Brad.  Then you came into my thread and acted like a perfect jackass. Beating up on me, well ok, I’m a big boy, and I’ve been beaten on by better than you.  Supposedly you are Brad’s friend, though. Yet you didn’t hesitate to demonstrate true douchery by taking a hit at him.  All the while he’s formatting that hit piece on himself for you before going on deployment.  A true friend indeed.

I’m sure you are aware of the Alinsky tactic of isolating the target and setting it up for destruction.  You also know that that’s exactly the time when friends need to stand together.  Yet there you were with the rest of the mob.  I’m asking myself why?  Couldn’t you just for once set aside your politics and support a friend who needs it? With all the voices turned  against them the puppies and Brad could have used another voice in support.  Even if you saw the screams of racism and misogyny you KNEW that it all had to be a  lie.  Yet you not only did not call out the lies, you amplified them and did not speak out against them even when the CHORFs were attacking YOU.  And that’s why you owe Brad and the rest of the puppies a HUGE apology.



  1. John Van Stry · May 28, 2015

    For leftists, it’s the message that matters. The State is Father, the State is Mother. Nothing else matters, ever.
    That is, after all, how they managed to kill 100 million people in the last century.
    Ideology comes first, friendship comes last, because you never know when your ideology will require you to put a bullet in your friends head. Especially if you want to make sure that your ‘ideological partners’ don’t put one in yours.


    • Neville Ross · March 3, 2018

      Mr. Van Stry, communists (really totalitarian Stalinists) killed millions in Eastern Europe and China; most other socialists did (and have) not. You and the author have a crappy reading of history, and most of it seems to be clouded by the same neocon sources prevalent in American media who know nothing of actual socialism.

      Somebody very wise said it best; ‘You keep using that word-I do not think it means what you think it means.’ And I think that you and the author of this post have confused human rights struggles with what when on in the Soviet Union and China way, way too much.


  2. Larry Mitchell · May 28, 2015

    Well said


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  4. connorcochran · May 29, 2015

    There’s a lot of heat here, but not much light. And far more opinion than fact. If you are going to draw conclusions you need to work from valid data. For just one example (deliberately selected to demonstrate my point, and to avoid obviously politicized flashpoints), your assertion that there is a “general decline in reading” is simply not supportable. Gallup has regularly put the question “Do you happen to be reading any books or novels at present?” to the U. S. public since the ’40s. In 1949 the percentage answering “yes” was only 21%. It dipped slightly in the early ’50s then returned to roughly the same number (22-23%) by the end of the decade. In the ’60s it began to climb. By 1990 it was up to 37% and by 2005 it was 47%. From this and other sources the general trend on reading in this country is clearly up, not down: the exact opposite of your statement.

    Consider this an invitation to examine some of your other premises, an invitation which you may take or leave as you wish.


    • jccarlton · May 29, 2015

      I based what I was saying on a number of observations. Number of bookstores available, the number of and kinds of books in places like grocery stores, the number of people and how many new people attending cons and what I’m seeing on the shelves. I checked the real numbers and even though bookscan might not be the most reliable gauge, the trend are not pretty:


      • connorcochran · May 29, 2015

        You have cherry-picked certain changes in distribution, driven by many economic and technological shifts, and generalized from them a “decline in reading” that does not exist. The opposite is true — more people are reading than ever before, and more written material is being consumed. It’s just being delivered in different ways and in different places.

        As for Bookscan, it’s a seriously unreliable yardstick. For just one example, writer-artist Colleen Doran reported in a FORBES magazine piece that Bookscan showed her selling 542 hardcover copies of one of her titles within a certain period, when the actual total sales was really 7,181! (I manage a number of well-known authors, and I would be committing professional malpractice if I relied solely on their Bookscan numbers when making strategic decisions on their behalf.)

        “New people attending cons” is a particularly silly thing to use as a measurement in a universe where three different cities offered competing bids to host Comic Con when its deal with San Diego recently came up for renewal.


  5. James May · May 29, 2015

    About Gamergate, take note of this:

    Brianna Wu (“all men benefit from structural sexism”) and Anita Sarkeesian (“toxic masculinity”) always take out an entire group in an act of mass defamation. And, they are not equal rights feminists – they are gender feminists.

    Wu and Sarkeesian are attacked in turn – not as all women – but as an ideology of gender feminism. Wu and Sarkeesian and their supporters nevertheless turn that attack against gender feminism into an attack on equal rights feminism or all women.

    And who do anti-Gamergaters quote for their own examples of the mass defamation of women? Gamergate leaders with actual names? No… there’s nothing there, and too many of them are women besides. They go to anonymous sources.

    That’s how you critique two sides objectively. With facts and in context. There is one single definition for “group defamation.” Anti-Gamergaters meet that definition – Gamergaters do not.

    Before the feminist critiques of video gaming, there was nothing remotely like an anti-woman ideology operating in the world of gaming. The idea there was is all based on misrepresenting skewed demographics, not actual rhetoric like feminism’s own. The same is true of SFF. SFF skewed white and male for most of its existence. That is not the same as a white male supremacist ideology. No more than The Stratemeter Syndicates’ girls stories and Ruth Fielding stories of adventurous independent college girls 1910-1934 was a female supremacy.


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  7. Gordon · May 29, 2015

    I’ve put a fair amount of money in Eric Flint’s pocket. Even after I knew he was a socialist (we’ll get it right this time, we promise, and with only hundreds of thousands of bodies, not millions, we swearsy!) I still bought his stuff, because I found it entertaining. Lately the quality of the 1632 series has been, well, crappy, as one would expect when the lead author has irons in a whole bunch of fires. So, it’s not too painful to say that I’m done with Eric Flint.

    I don’t know why I’m surprised when leftists turn out to be jerks. Our boy Eric states in writing that he knows Vox Day’s mind so well that Eric can state that Vox Day’s beliefs on race are the same as Hitler’s. George Martin stated that he was embarassed by how “his side” behaved. The cognitive dissonance didn’t last long, though; Martin decided that since the other side was, you know, not TRUFAN, that it was okay.

    I’m not sure why Brad Torgerson or Larry Correia or anyone on the Sad Puppies side would call any of these people “friend.” These jerks will, demonstratedly, turn on anyone who questions their right to reign, or who points out that their behavior does not match their stated ideals. Me, I reserve the term “friend” for someone who I can trust.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Ha Nguyen · May 29, 2015

    Oh. My. God. You are on the internet and haven’t noticed the rise of e-books? Very few people go to actual bookstores these days. I think ebooks now constitute about 40% of sales for a given book release. You might want to reconsider the “death” of science fiction. This year alone I’ve bought more books and more authors who are new to me and new to the genre than ever before. However, most of the books I’m buying now are e-books. I rarely go to a physical bookstore now because it wastes gas and kills a tree – both of which are anathema to me as a liberal. It also takes up physical space which means I need to waste time in the future getting rid of it when I move.


    • Nathan · May 29, 2015

      Please remember that he’s talking about the death of traditional dead-tree SFF from the publishing houses, not the indie explosion in SFF.


    • jccarlton · May 29, 2015

      I’ve been a Baen barfly for 20 years or so. So I am well aware of ebooks. That doesn’t change the fact that there is a decline in paper books and books traditionally published. One big problem with ebooks is that it’s impossible to sort of impulse browse. You can’t just pick up a book and start reading it, like you can a paper book. I know that Amazon tries to suggest books, but somehow, it’s not the same. Indie is a GOOD thing, but there still needs to be room for discovering stuff.


      • connorcochran · May 29, 2015

        Actually, you CAN impulse browse ebooks. Almost all ebook services offer a way to read sample portions before buying — in general, far more material than any bookstore or old newstand counter would ever let you look at for free.

        And, repeating — you did not say “a decline in paper books and books traditionally published.” You said a “decline in reading.”

        Liked by 1 person

    • Zimriel · May 29, 2015

      People *do* go to bookstores! They need a place to sit in comfy chairs in quiet to sleep off the last night’s drunk. And to panhandle middle-aged SWPLs who haven’t yet figured out what those people use the stores for.


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  10. ymarsakar · May 31, 2015

    I wonder if the original author would be surprised to know that the gamer community and SFWA are where Leftists have the least amount of influence. They are behaving radically not because their power is secure, but because they are not secure. However, this does not mean the Leftist alliance as a whole is weak.

    Does the original author comprehend that the same methods to take up SFWA, such as the Alinsky methods, were successfully used against teachers, LEOs, lawyers, and political classes since 1930 at least? The Left has already stabilized their power structure in those other realms, those other fronts. And the current intel assessment is that their power cannot be restrained any more, when what you have seen with the bakers and the Gaystapo, are less than 10% of their mobilized power. It is not even half of it. In science fiction and fantasy, as well as games, there was pushback. But in the rest of the West, the forces of freedom have surrendered and all the resources of America will eventually be devoted to Slavery 3.0 or what some call human perfect utopia.

    For those that are looking for the data underlying these assessments, look up these topics.

    1. The 1980s operation between psychologists and lawyers, implanting false memories in children and then prosecuting the parents for child abuse or satanic worship. Also related to Waco 1.

    2. The European and now American operation to import in a second class of citizens in order to vote out the first ones that refuse to comply.

    These are not operations conducted by SFWA weaklings or feminists in gaming. It has never been wise to underestimate the left. Vox Day has one apparent virtue, which is that he isn’t afraid of attacking back.


    • jccarlton · May 31, 2015

      I’m trying to look at things on a different take for most of this. Watch this space for more. I’ve got a stack of stuff coming that touches on most of it one way or another. My focus, though is the dysfunctional economy, the reasons it’s dysfunctional and how it can be fixed. That’s at least as politics goes. I also don’t think that the lefts power structure is anywhere as stable as they would like to believe.


      • ymarsakar · May 31, 2015

        The stability would be questionable if what you wrote before was true about Americans. However, most Americans inherited a freedom they have never earned and will never earn now a days. People overseas look down on US freakish foreign policies and neocons concerning useless wars like Iraq, but Vietnam and Iraq were the last chances of America to prove that inherited freedom was deserved. That’s why the Left sabotaged those chances.

        So only some Americans deserve the freedom they inherit, only some are the 3% strong enough to rebel against tyranny like the Founding Fathers did. Those few Americans are not numerous enough to challenge the Left, not with 5th columns all around us.

        The Leftist alliance is much more stable than even the GOP. They can hold JFingKerry and HRC in cabinet positions, sharing power. Evil is said not to like to share things, yet they do it much better than the GOP. Well the GOP also shares things, but only often times with Democrats in “compromises” like Bush II did with Ted Kennedy.

        Most of the Left’s operations are not known to the general public. Nor are they known to defectors like Horowitz, which didn’t operate on the black ops side of Leftists, only the light propaganda side. Things like Benghazi or the ATF’s mission to sell weapons to Mexican cartels by forcing Americans to obey the order, are not known until much later in the timeline. With each operation, successful or not, the Left proves that their organization is far greater and far more balanced than people know of.


  11. Lot’s of crappy opinions in the OP and erroneous facts. The decline of reading being one.

    I really think the Rightist fan writer nominee putting an awful attack on a SF writer as a sample of her best work in the Hugo packet is without precedent, as well as some of the other related works being attacks on scientists and a collection of rant attacks on liberals, just like this propaganda piece.

    Amazing how the language gets twisted. Would not have guessed the so-called Leftists are called the reactionaries by the clique of reactionaries known as puppies.


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