Now I’m somewhat of an expert in all the technologies and I’m sorry, but I see some issues. First of all the booster vids.
The claims that Musk just came up with the idea are stretching things more than a little bit. I first saw a vacuum transit system in Time Life’s Transportation book in their technology series back in the late 1960’s. I suspect that it was referring to Robert Salter’s work, but I can’t be sure as I no longer have the book and my local library doesn’t either. It turns out, though, that the idea is even older than that, being shown in in Popular Science, in 1914.
Like a bad penny the concept keeps showing up.
I’ve always been a nuts and bolts type that likes to get into the details of machinery, especially transportation. I collect stuff on how transportation works and just what needs to happen. Plus, I’m always looking how systems work, whether or not it’s a commuter rail, high speed rail, shipping or trucking. So I know how transportation systems are supposed to work and when things look wrong. Unfortunately the Hyperloop, while it looks cool, feels wrong, very wrong.
I’m going to take this on in three parts. First is the details of magnetic levitation(maglev). Second will be the details of dealing with vacuum. The third is operations and what you would need to do to make Hyperloop pay and why in light of the other issues it just won’t work.
First of all, is hard. Very smart engineers in Japan and Germany have been working on maglev for as long as I have been alive, since the 1960’s and it’s still not competitive. The problem is the huge amount of infrastructure involved in the Track way. Much of which involves things that are precise and need to be protected from the weather. One thing that I have learned over the years is that precise, delicate and being outside in th weather doesn’t work very well.
The Germans have been testing and developing their Transrapid maglev for decades as the transportation system of the future. They haven’t been able to find any buyers in Germany due to the high costs involved and the only installation has been in Shanghai for a short line to the airport.
The biggest pushers of maglev have been the Japanese. The Japanese have been pursuing various forms of maglev technology since the 1960’s with varying degrees of success leading to the test site in Yamanashi.
Still the Japanese haven’t got the train fully operational. If you look at the test schedule, there are frequent long gaps for maintenance and rework, which is normal for a prototype. Still the stuff on the RTRI and other sites doesn’t show a lot of operational details, so it’s difficult to get a handle on how operations run. It’s hard to tell from the above video and the others I’ve found how often the maglev has to be recharged or what gas they are using to maintain superconductivity. If they are still using Helium, then things are going to be very expensive once real operations start. To say nothing of the leak and storage issues. If they have been able to apply high temperature superconductors, then liquid Nitrogen can be used and that makes operations much simpler.
It appears that the Japanese are continuing with liquid Helium superconductors. I can understand that once they started down that road that they want to stick with it. That does mean that they are dealing with liquid Helium and the assorted hardware, which has it’s issues. I’ve worked in a place where we had lots of Liquid helium around and it’s A. slippery stuff that tend to leak even through solid walls and B. very expensive. That was here in the US where the only worldwide supply exists. Also where there has been concern about shortages. Depending on the number of trains JRCentral plans to run and how large the cryogenic system is that could be an issue. The same goes for a Hyperloop and it’s magnets. Which may not be able to escape the liquid Helium issues because of the next issue, the vacuum.
Vacuum sucks. I’ve been working with vacuum in various ways for 18 years now off and on and I’m still discovering things. It’s amazing how hard it is to keep the things you don’t want, out. The problem with dealing with vacuum is that you have to be always concerned with the stuff you put inside the chamber and any possible leaks. It’s a given that there will be leaks.
While the Hyperloop doesn’t require a high vacuum it will be. by fat the largest vacuum chamber ever constructed if they build the track. Which means that it will need both large and numerous pumps. Sort of like this one.
Here is NASA’s Space Power Facility which is apparently the largest vacuum chamber. which uses three of the pumps the size of the one above and still takes eight hours to pump down. That’s because you can’t pump using compression for vacuum you have to remove the air, one slug at a time and as the pressure goes down, the slugs have less air in them. So there is a long tail affect as it physically take longer for the air to get to the pump. In the Hyperloop’s case that means that you are going to need a lot of pumps running all the time in addition to powering the pods.
Now the Large Hardon Collider is probably the longest vacuum tube, but not the largest because it’s a very long pipe. But the volume is small, because the pipe is probably 30 or 35 mm in diameter on the inside. This raises the key point of vacuum design which is that you really want our chamber volume as small as possible. With as few openings as you can get away with. Which is exactly the opposite of the Hyperloop’s requirements.
Then there is the issue of what happens during a catastrophic venting. Which Thunderfoot’s video shows what can happen.
The Mythbusters did much the same thing with a ping pong ball. For dramatic effect.
What will happen to the pod is shown by this video of a F4 being thrown at a wall. Which is a best case scenario.
Which brings me to the third and last set of issues, how operations would work or won’t work. All The videos show one car at time moving down the tube. The problem is that if you did that, the number of people able to use the system is going to be very low. Consider that the size of the pods that I have seen have a passenger load of 20 people or so. So, if the pod takes half an hour, that means at best 40 people an hour, which is frankly ridiculous. Which means that you have multiple pods in the tube at the same time.
I’m not sure that is even possible because that requires, what is referred to in vacuum terms as a load lock. Which would have to be pumped down in two minutes or so. For a 3m dia x 20m load lock which is 141.4 m^3, from here,
You are going to need pumps that can handle about 2.5 m^3/second. Which means that you probably need two of the bi pumps listed above. Along with all the other pumps. All along the tube, all the tine. And the liquid Helium. Why, well all those magnets in the tube. They will heat up and that heat has to go somewhere. Which in vacuum means that the heat has to be bled out from inside the magnets because there is no air to draw heat away.
In any case the Hyperloop to work perfectly all the time or catastrophic and expensive failures are inevitable. Add to that the every high costs require just to keep the system running at all. Would time savings be justified by most people? Somehow I doubt that people are going to replace a $49 plane ticket for $200 ticket for being shot down the world’s largest gun. This “cool idea” should go back into the “cool idea” folder and be put away like it was before. It was unworkable in 1914, defeated by the laws of vacuum physics operational limitations and high costs and none of those have changed in the 100 or so years since.
Update: Here’s ThunderF00t’s video.